Until recently I had no real concern or beef with the club or their members, or for that matter any particular club of such nature, at least none that would ever incite me to use this outlet to mine to discuss and criticize them, but that change recently as I was kicked out of Film Club suddenly and unceremoniously. The reason, for an offhand comment that I said, in another Facebook club. Yes, another Facebook club. More on that later. A comment, that was fairly innocuous, that I am not taking back, one that I barely remembered even making, since the discussion itself had nothing in particular to do with Film Club, and happened weeks earlier. Yeah, you read that too. One comment in one post, not in the group, that happened so long ago, that I didn't recall even making it, or for that matter, thinking that it was of any value or importance, that it would incur a punishment as badly as dismissal and banishment.
I was pissed, you'll find out how pissed later, but to give some background on "Film Club", they apparently were a Facebook group that started five years earlier, has about 30,000 or so members, and has dozens of Administrators or Admins as the Facebook jargon calls them, and there's some kind of chain of command within the Admins, led by one, Carl Champion, Jr. I've had some previous discussions with Mr. Champion before this incident, nothing of any important note, we talked in the group once or twice, over this or that thing I'm sure, he's friends on Facebook with several people who I'm friends with, including other members of Film Club and of several other Facebook groups. However he likes to brag about how big his group is, and talks about how he is the leader and founder of it. It's somewhat impressive, although it's fairly easy to start and build a Facebook group if that's all one wants to do, although to his credit, he has worked on expanding the group, including a Youtube Page, where most of the videos have at best, about half the hits that each of my blogpost regularly get, which I should also probably add, I've had longer than "Film Club"'s been in existence, and the group has a regular podcast as well as other shows that they produce or promote on their channel and elsewhere. I'm not gonna link the name of their Youtube page or the blog here, they're not too difficult to find out I'm sure, if you wish to investigate, but I do not wish to grant this guy more publicity than I deem necessary. In fact, I have given him publicity in the past, having had a link to one of the groups projects on this very blog in the past, which I was happy to do at the time. However, if you ask me, the biggest benefit and reason for the Facebook Club's continued and widespread "Success",, if one can be overly successful running such an endeavor, has to do with the fact that he named the group, "Film Club". Which is a good group name, admittedly, one that's basic, simple, and fairly easy and likely for people interested in finding discussion group where people talk about movies to find. I have no idea what he would say on the subject, and I do not care. What I do care about is the nature in which he runs this "Film Club" of his. Some might be aware but Film Club, does have a bit of a reputation in the community and not necessary a great one. There's several reasons for this, most of which I'm not willing, interested in, or for that matter, knowledgeable enough to write about but needless to say that their tendencies and the actions and justifications of some of it's higher members has at best, been mixed among the widespread community.
I can tell you my story and I'm going to give every detail and best as I can, and this will include cutting and pasting of all pertinent exchanges and information if necessary, so as to make sure that I or his words are not misrepresented, although I will be adding pertinent commentary to the exchanges as needed. My goal is to show how Mr. Cart Champion, Jr. , who, according to his Facebook page, got his education in Computers from an online university, and is a Admistration Reseau, at an automotive supplier. (Yeah, I had to look that up too, Administration Reseau means he's the computer guy, that's all. He's keeps track of a company's computer systems.) but he's aspired to be an award winning lottery ticket buyer, and includes, himself among his favorite quotes, apparently he once said, "I love my life," and thought it was important enough to write down and remember that he said that, and a few other quotes that indicate his own self-obsessed personal desire, runs a Facebook group like a self-obsessed tyrant who thinks that power allows him to treat others as unfairly as he feels like, and will go to absurd and ridiculous lengths to observe and appease some wild-eyed allusion of dignity and claim that his group and position wherein supposedly has. To quote one acquaintance of his, who's requested that I keep their name out, for fear of retribution from Mr. Champion or one of his other Film Club associates:
"If we're being honest, Carl seems the type to have to shine his shoes for forgiveness. Very authoritative. And even if you do, he can probably wave his hand and make any ruling he wants. He had it sure that you knew it was "His vision" and everyone's and extension of "him"".
Others in private, who also wish not to have their names listed, have brought up to me how petty his behavior has been and have complained about his totalitarian style of management of Film Club, and how him and his fellow admins use the threat of expulsion at their whim in order to control and bully the group. I myself, have felt this experience once, when I got into a debate in the group awhile back and I got into an argument with another of admins. I backed off the best I could at the time without giving up too much of the higher ground, despite his threat to abuse his power, but now that I am officially kicked out, there's literally nothing that's standing in my way from discussing him and the group now and say whatever I want.
With that in mind, I'm going to take you back as much as I possibly can to recreate the exchange that Mr. Champion instigated with me on August 7th, 2017, almost two weeks ago. For the purposes of convenience, his words have been colored yellow, mine are highlighted in blue and any additional commentary and thoughts I have will continue in my regular font.
You're out Baruffi
You wanted a prick, you got one
Peace
That's what he said, before I can get a word in. He Messaged me on Facebook, like that. No "Hello", no, "I need to discuss something..." just, "You're out Baruffi." And for record, no, at no point in this conversation, the statement that I made earlier that will be referred to anytime after, have I ever asked, requested or implied that I "wanted a prick", either out of Carl Champion, Jr. or anybody else related to Film Club.
What'd I do?
Don't play with me
Good bye
No, seriously, what'd I do? What am i out of?
Figure it out
So, here's what's happened so far. I'm told I'm out, I don't know of what, yet, 'cause I honestly didn't give enough of a shit to remember who the Admins are of which group, and because I mostly only recognize Mr. Champion as a tertiary member of some Facebook film group, and when I ask why or for explanation of what happened and what am I accused of, he says, "Don't play with me," and "Figure it out."! So, this guy, is willing to kick people out of his group, suddenly, and without even letting the person know why, and what he's done, or even just inform him of what he's doing? I'm not asking to be read the Miranda rights, but still, this is a presumably a fully-grown adult male, dismissing me, from his Facebook group about movies, and he's not even bothering to tell me what I did, even when asked. I was supposed to "figure it out". Remind you, this was a comment I made, in another group, weeks earlier! And even if it wasn't, you should tell people what they did, especially when they ask! (Not that they should have to ask, in their position, it should be a given!) I am not joking or being facetious when I say this, but even considering everything else that happens afterwards here, he had actually done that, instead of this shit, I would not be writing this blog. This post is as much about exposing the shitty tactics and behaviors of a leader of a Facebook group as it anything else, probably moreso in fact. Let's continue however.
Is this the Mike Mills's comment?
The second before all this happened, I had posted a tweet about Mike Mills:
I don't normally do those HOT TAKES or CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS, whatever, but, (Sigh) I hate the montages in Mike Mills's films.
Since that was what I was doing that second, that's what I first presumed it was. Of course, I investigated and it took me a couple minutes to begin to figure it out.
What the hell, you're kicking me out of "Film Club"? Why, what did I do there? Now?
Hold on, why am I playing 20 Questions, if you're pissed at me for a reason tell me what it is! I shouldn't have to guess, be a man.
You really want to do this
Just own it
You said what you said just own it and move on
I would, if I knew what the hell you were talking about, what did I say?
He then sent me this screenshot:
In case you thought I was lying, check the date. July 28, this conversation took place, he's throwing me out, on August 7th. ten days later, I was supposed to immediately know what the hell he was talking about, to him. It's this comment that got me thrown out of the club. I'll be discussing the context of the comment, later, but for now, let's continue with the exchange.
Now bow out like a man who thinks we are pricks
Never had a bad thing to say about you, still don't really
But that's your choice
First of all, why would I bow out, second of all, I said that in another group, and third of all, you just kicked me out for it. I only said "Seems like", but now you're confirming it. You don't ask me to explain to ask me to compare, but god forbiid I criticize for a second and I'm out? How thin-skinned are you?
lol I told you at the beginning of this conversation
You wanted a prick you got one
I genuinely have no idea what the hell he's laughing at. I'm pissed at this point.
And no, I wasn't referring to you, but I was referring to some of the admins, who seemed to wanted to just use their power to pick on people who disagreed with them, including threatening me at one point. I don't think it's an unjustified claim, and even if it wasn't, that's a legitimate enough claim to kick somebody out over. You guys have mocked a lot of my work, and my comments and I didn't say shit then, but yeah, you guys seems dismissive of others at time, and not in a way that's joking or nice. Some of you seem power-hungry and controlling, and frankly, since it's just a Film Group on Facebook, that's a little disconcerning
Good maybe a win win then
Sounds like it
I didn't say I wanted a prick, I said you seem like pricks, which you friggin' do right now. You're way out of line.
I can understand your point of view but my guys are an extension of me. I put the team together because they understood my vision. Whatever they do or say in my group is on me, and whatever is said about them is said about me. That will always be my point of view on this.
Worry not though because as you said, it's inconsequential
Even outside the group, which you're not responsible for? Just one backhanded criticism, and suddenly I'm inconsequential. No, I don't accept. I demand my day in court.
Last I checked, there was what, a dozen or so admins, I want to present my case.
Also, I don't know when I said it was "inconsequential" but I don't find that word in conversation until you mentioned it.
I had not used the word "Inconsequential" at that point. I think he was trying to shove my own words back in my face, but confused the word, "Disconcerting" with "inconsequential". Admittedly, I misspelled that word, but even still, those two words' meanings aren't anywhere close to being interchangeable. He then posted this image, of the Film Club rules, with a red-circled part.
If I had access to the complete rules and/or guidelines of "Film Club" I would've posted them but since I'm not allowed to see them anymore, this is all I get. From what I can tell however, most of these rules are fairly benign and not particularly unruly or improper in any way. However, the circled area, which I'm now realizing isn't even technically a rule, since it's added onto the rules, in fact, it's apart of a paragraph warning about the judgment calls of admins, not regarding expulsion, but regarding the legitimacy of certain posts they deem "not in the best interest of the club", just added onto the bottom, "If you publicly shame the club, you're out." It has nothing to do with the rest of the paragraph, it's not even an official rule, I now realize. Basically, it's a line on a document that gives the leader carte blanche to do police and control people in his group, even when it's completely outside of their group. I'm sure some of you readers who are history buffs are probably thinking about the same comparison I am, but let's not go there for the time being. Let's just observe how somewhat ridiculous and obnoxious this rule is, and oh, it gets better.
There you go
Case closed
What do you mean, "Case Closed" I didn't shame you or the club.
I'm afraid calling my team pricks is enough
Which, I didn't do.
I said "seems like", that's not calling you pricks. That's not bringing shame, that's sharing an observation. A critical one at that. And even if it wasn't; I'm challenging the law anyway. Just because someone criticizes a group shouldn't bring about expulsion. This isn't a dictatorship last I checked, and since there's more than one admin that guarantees there's not. Also, just because your group is a reflection of you, that means they are not allowed to disagree with you, at all? What kind of stipulation is that? The only shame that I see is that you think you're so weak that you have to threaten your own members just for the inference of talking about you, that's shameful. Most of the people who've criticized me, I've tried to befriend and at least consider there stance, and maybe try to improve myself with it, but this.... this is not a crime, and the punishment isn't valid.
I'm not joking. I want a date in court, and i want a vote.
And not just, you present your evidence and slick the hands of the Admins and you show them this, message, which I've saving too btw, no, I want to prepare a case and arguments. Name the date, and I'll be prepared.
He then sent me an invite to Messenger, and asked me to install the app to my phone.
I don't have a phone that uses apps.
That's true, my phone doesn't use apps, and even if it did, I probably wouldn't use them anyway. I genuinely don't get the whole apps thing, but that's neither here nor there.
Perhaps a group chat can be made.
https://www.facebook.com/help/249596111818806/
I sent him a link to how to produce a group chat on Facebook instead. It's something I've worked within and participated in before, I thought it would be appropriate and fair here, to have every member of Film Club's Admin team added to this chat, so that they can view and even participate in the exchange themselves as well as witness the trial, for which they'd be judge and jury for. Mr. Champion, for some reason or another, did not appreciate this idea.
I should also point out before I go on, that there were quite a few delays and lulls during this conversation; this was one of them, I believe, but I ca't account for all of them offhand, but keep that in mind, a lot of this is him pausing and presumably thinking about his response, and part of it would be me doing that as well, but not as much.
I'm afraid there may be some confusion
You will never be a Film Club member again with your current profile
So, apparently he's well-aware that this whole thing can be circumvented by me just using a new Facebook identity, so he's at least aware of his powerlessness his position actually is, I guess. Which only makes his behavior and insistence that much more nonsensical and confusing though....
This isn't up for debate or discussion
I'll answer any question you have but that much will remain true
So now, the guy who told me and forced me to "Figure it out", is now saying that he'll answer any of his questions. (Long frustrating pause) I'm not trying to joke, with these things, when you're experience this, trust me, it's, it's not nearly as funny as it sounds.
You're right, there's confusion here. I told you, I don't accept, I'm challenging your law, and I demand a trial.You are now required to give me one.
I am challenging your rule and law.
I'm afraid that while writing the rules of my club I didn't include that
Which is why, it's being challenged.
There's not been a ruling on it, therefore it's up for debate, and a trial to determine the definition of the law as well as the standards of it.
Or are you afraid you'll lose if I put this to a vote of the admins?
Once I make a ruling it is final, and I've done that
That's not in the rules.
I was guessing. I couldn't see the rules anymore, so maybe it did say tha; anyway, I bluffed. It'd be stupid if that was in the rules anyway, and it wasn't gonna stop me at this point.
If my admins don't like it they will challenge me and at that point it will be up for debate
But that's nothing you'd be involved in
It would be between me and them
SO, only admins can challenge, but not me, not any other of the 30,000+ thousand members? We can't bring up a complaint against the admins? That's not right, that's not fair, and I'm challenging it.
You can
But that doesn't mean it will be heard
Wanna bet?
Lots of members lodge complaints to me
And I hear them all
You made the mistake of personally disrespecting me
No, I did not.
And I can prove it.
So you have nowhere to take your complaint
My team votes on almost everything we do
But some decisions are mine and mine alone
This isn't one of them. I'm insisting that it's not one of them.
You don't get authoritative power, unless I accept it. I'm not accepting it.
I await the date of my trial.
Whenever's most convenient for you.
I'm not sure where you get your Film Club related news but someone lied to you
I do get authoritative power
And my team supports all of my decisions, until they don't
And at that point it is debated internally
"Film Club-related news?" What the hell is he talking about? It's a Facebook club about film, what actual news can they actually have that's remotely relevant to this? And no, no one lied to me, as far as I know about this, 'cause I never felt the need to inquire about this with anybody.
Not in this issue, and I'm not sure how much the other admins will appreciate you keeping a such a decision to yourselves despite a demand and request to have it up to a vote.
And, if your team supports all your decisions, then you should have no fear of going through a trial. It was just be a formality for you, wouldn't it?
We have the trial, you give your arguments, I give mine, you present witnesses, I present mine, we cross each other's arguments,... if they're going to just go with you anyway, then what's the harm exactly of going through it?
You should be jumping at the opportunity to defend your name, not cowarding and hiding behind an arcane law, shouldn't you?
Your name, your admins name, and the group's name?
I'm fairly certain there was a long pause either here or shortly after. I think he was trying ot ignore me, but it's starting to come around to him that I'm not joking.
Just so I'm clear
You want me to go to a small group of people whom you referred to as seemingly "like pricks", and ask them how they want to deal with you ?
And ask them how they want to deal with you, yes.
I want a trial, I want to defend my case, and you to present your case against me, and then, let them decide.
And I plan to call witnesses too, I might add. Don't worry, I'll inform you ahead of time, once I get them rounded up, so you'll have time to prepare your cross-examination.
I wasn't kidding. During many of the lulls in the exchange and as I was in this discussion, I started messaging and contacting people who I was explaining/inquiring on whether or not they would testify for me, if I called them as a witness, and they were willing to go through with this. One of them even contacting Mr. Champion informing him that he would be testifying. I wasn't kidding with the title of this blogpost, or for that matter, with Mr. Champion, I was treating this like a trial for my right to be allowed back into the group. If he was going to hold to his arbitrary bullshit, then so was I.
There will be no trial
My decision is final on this matter
But just for fun
I'll get you something
I don't know what he was trying to get me, but I wasn't waiting to find out.
Your decision is not accepted. I demand a trial, I have a right to one, and I am not forgoing the right to defend myself against an dictatorial leader,just because they declare themselves somehow above their own laws. That law shall be challenged, and if need be, your authority will be challenged to. This will not end until I have my day in court. This is not a warning.
He then posted two more images:
These are, apparently images taken from some group of his, "Admins" he's put together in some kind of app. The group he's named for his group of admins, is "Troll Hunters". I have no idea who "NayNay" is at this time, but based on their photo, Mu, is Akhi Muhannad, which is interesting in of itself, because he contacted me a couple days ago, and asked me to join a group that's supposedly a different Facebook group, where the group was promoted as, and I quote, "A bootleg shitter version of the original Film Club and all its affiliate groups and beyond..... This is your phantom zone... your place of banishment.... in other words HELL...", unquote, and the group is purportedly a group that's for people who themselves were also banished from "Film Club". However, he is listed as an admin of "Film Club", above, and another member of this secondary group, is the one identified as Ozma in the picture above, her name is Robyn Holder. Both of these people, I can confirm, are Facebook friends of Carl Champion, Jr., and Mr. Champion himself, has also commented on a post in this group, the one that supposedly is for people banished from Film Club, and he himself is currently listed as a member of this Facebook group, which is currently named "Phantom Jahannam." (I say, currently named, 'cause despite this group only being around for a brief time, little more than three months, it's already had one name change. (BTW, I've sent him Facebook Friend request, several times over the years now, not for any particular reason, other than the fact that, he is friends with some of my friends I've made in these Facebook groups, and he seems to be knowledgeable enough about film and cinema to talk about, and up until now, he seems like the kind of acquaintance that would seem amiable to befriend, since he matriculated around the same groups. I don't know why he didn't befriend me in the past, or for that matter, why he hasn't even responded to the last friend request I sent him.
Except for that friend request part, I didn't know any of that at the time, so,back to the images, here, we're shown that he's asking the group, to confirm his request. He shows his argument, and asks them to confirm. And two people are shown responding to the request, of the three, that had at the time, seen the request. I know there's far more members of his administration than that, but that didn't matter to me. Essentially, he had presented his case to the jury.
Anything else ?
And now, he's requested from me, if I have anything more to say about what evidence he's presented. As far as I was concerned, I got my trial, he had testified and presented his evidence, and now, it was my turn, to cross-examine him, and that's what the rest of the conversation consisted of.
Mr. Champion, when you say that you "asked" that I be removed, who did you ask, exactly?
Confidential
I have operatives in every movie discussion group on Facebook that matters
Not giving names because it would reveal identities
And I need them active
"Confidential"? I thought you were the one who determined such decisions as to who is removed from the group?
For this reason
What reason is that?
So I find out when people are talking sideways about me or my club
Why is that such an issue?
Because it's against my rule
If you don't like it
Start your own club and make whatever rules you want
I hope a lot of you who are members and especially those who are admins of other Facebook groups out there, got that, 'cause he doesn't just admit that, he brags about members of his group hiding in other groups under assumed names, and believes it's the right thing to do, and again, it's for protecting his precious,"Film Club", from "Shame". He is so devoted to his Film Club, that he will spy on other groups, just so he can ban and catch others for quote-unqoute, "talking sideways" about him, or his club. I literally, have never heard anything so gutless, and cowardice, and just flat-out, thin-skinned, in my life. For a Facebook group of his. I literally don't know what to say here; if had to come up with an example randomly, of what some supposed macho big shot tough guy would do, that would prove he was nothing more than a whiny, crying little piss-ant, it would've been, somebody setting up an elaborate collection of followers in order to spy on people secretly in case they wanted to say something stupid and incendiary about them, behind their back. Look, there's a lot of trolls and idiots out there, in any collection of fans out there, but this is different. He's not a troll, he's a cancer to the entire Facebook Film, Television and entertainment community and for that matter to social media at large. He's trying to infiltrate other groups in order to massage his poor fragile ego, and somehow he's managed to get others involved in his little petty exercise of his. And to those other Members and Admins, no I don't know what the answer is to the problem of eliminate his influence from your own groups, or whether it's possible to, and btw, don't be too surprised if you find out that some of his confidential secret agent are themselves admins, 'cause I would not at all be shocked by that revelation if such one ever got revealed in one of your groups.
Why is the rule there? What purpose does it matter if somebody talks about your club elsewhere?
What's the reason for the rule? Do you simply want to control all of your members?
Because I don't like it
Yeah, the leader of a Facebook Film Group, doesn't like it when people say something mean about him on the internet. (Mocking pouty face) Just imagine he acted this way in any other part of modern society, how exactly would you look upon him, and how you would react to such a person. And adult, who's married, and has a wife and kid and a regular job, how you would look at such a small man and his petulant childish behavior, not to mention the ten or twelve privacy and probably breaking and entering and stalking laws he'd probably be breaking to do this, and tell me I'm overreacting to this, I dare you! (Long deep breath) It continues...
Well, I don't like it when people talk bad about me, but I certainly won't go so far as to try and stop. This is a free country, you know?
Free country, closed group
I don't think "Closed Group" means not to talk about it; not to my knowledge of any Facebook rule.
What about if they talk about it, somewhere else? Perhaps in an email, perhaps on the phone, isn't that just as damning?
It is and if I find out about it the same rule will apply to that situation
Oh! So, it's okay if people talk about you or your group, but only if you don't hear about it.
I can't do anything about it if I don't know about it
So text all your friends about how much of a prick I can be
I'll never know
Let's go back to the law, Mr. Champion, what does it mean, "To publicly shame", the group?
I would imagine a lot that could apply to that definition
So, there's no set rule as to what constitutes, "Shaming" as far as the group is concerned, correct?
You can say anything was putting the group to shame, isn't that right?
Witness is non-responsive, permission to treat as hostile?
I never did get a ruling on that motion, but I decided to consider the witness a hostile witness just in case anyway. I asked for a trial, I got one, and now I'm treating it like a real trial, don't act like I didn't warn you (and him) that I was taking this seriously.
Very well, would a dictionary definition of "Shame" be satisfactory to you?
I'm gonna read into the records the definition of "Shame" according to dictionary.com, may I consider the definition read:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/shame
I never got an official ruling on this piece of evidence, either, but he accepted the definition and responded to it, so I'm going to presume that the definition from the link above, has been read into evidence and is therefore apart of the transcript for this case.
Mr. Champion, exactly, what definition(s) of the word, would you say I broke, with my statement?
The word improper
In my opinion
"Improper"?
And the opinion of my team
You consulted the "team" on that question?
Inferring that my team may be pricks is improper
Of course
Why wouldn't I
Why would that be?
Because I said so
Before I continue, could you add the members of this team of your to the chat, I would like them to see this as well?
I can only add who is available
Are you sure? Others can see this at another time as well, if they so choose.
Couldn't they?
How does that help you
First of all, yes he could've added many more people to this chat, not just those who were "available", but more importantly, "How does that help me?" I know it's a small thing, but, it's sorta disturbing that he would ask me that, as though, I'd somehow not want this conversation out in public to everyone, particularly those he's claiming that I "insulted" when defending my position. I'm trying to clear my name, I want this as open as possible; he's the one insisting on keeping all his activities including this entire procedure as secret as possible. Again, this isn't a war tribunal or anything, but even still, if I'm arguing that I'm innocent and I'm confident in my case and evidence, and as long as there's no imminent threat to my life or something.... To me, this indicates that his obsession with secrecy is both diluted and perverse, firstly for not believing that I wouldn't want it, but also for the fact that he's seemingly presumed that I would, and thirdly for the fact that this is still, all over, a Facebook group? I'm not sure what the secrecy is for I mean, this is J.R. Ewing-type behavior, but at least he owned an oil empire, I can get the need for secrecy in that position, especially for a crook like J.R., but.... Anyway, that was my tangent-of-thought there.
I'm the one asking the questions at the moment, Mr. Champion, but, I'm not here to hide anything, just defending my position and presenting my defense. And I would like that to be open to every one on your team, since this concerns them.
No
I'm not revealing the identities of people
The identities of your "Admins", aren't they listed on the Facebook page?
They have worked with me for years and protected their identities will remain
Why the secrecy, what are protecting?
Some admins are listed, far more are secret
I have no idea how that works, I imagine based on the evidence he already presented that that app with the "Troll Hunter" list is some kind of private admin list he has where there's several names of these "Secret Admins" along with their aliases. Seems like a lot of extra unnecessary work to me....
Why are you so protective of that you feel the need to hire spies? This is just a film group, not Cold War Soviet Union?
So I can find out when David Baruffi is talking sideways stuff about us
Hey look it works
So, was I shaming the group or was I talking sideways about the group?
One and the same
Are they?
Is that listed in the rule somewhere that shaming and sidewaysing the group is the same, or equal to the same punishment?
in our opinion yes
Don't forget this team has been in place for almost 5 years
Pretty much the same squad
But that's just an opinon, not a rule or a law of the group. Hypothetically a talking sideways might not be as drastic as a shame talking, isn't that right? And again, why the secrety to find out what people are talking about you? What are you threatened or afraid of in other groups, can't they leave and work
It's at this point, he desperately tries to call me for a video chat.
I don't have a microphone on the computer Mr. Champion, I'm afraid I can't take a video call.
I don't have a microphone on this computer. My last computer did, but it died, and the monitor I have for this tower is from an older computer, I'd need to buy a separate microphone.
Just because you've been around five years, doesn't mean much, my blog's been around for six, Facebook's been around for about ten, I've been alive for 32, that's not really relevant here, Mr. Champion. Just because a team been around for awhile, doesn't mean it'll stay together now does it? But it still doesn't answer the question as to why you're so fearful of people talking about you, that you've set up a team to spy to being with?
He never responded to this question, I waited awhile before continuing on a different path. And I genuinely don't know why he's so assured that the length of time him and his admins have been around has any correlation to how they'd act and respond to his requests. I certainly have some friends who are quite close to me that I've known way longer than five years, and I can't guarantee that they'd
Okay, let's go to the insult itself, I didn't call you and your team, "Pricks", did i? In fact, you've only submitted, the one statement from the conversation, into evidence, do you have the entire conversation available?
I'd like to submit the entire conversation into evidence.
Which conversation
The one we're talking about, the one you're using as justification for kicking me out.
I have enough
Yes, but the conversation was more than that however, correct? I am allowed to present evidence, myself, correct?
Especially since, part of it is already in the record, I don't see how the entirety would be objected. I suspected all the other admins would like to see as well.
I have no idea what the rest of the conversation held
So, you made your decision, or advise the Admins, without examining all the evidence?
I move to strike the decision, and allow me to become a member of Film Club again. The decision to ban me was made without the Admin(s) having fully investigated the charge. Therefore, this is the equivalent of arresting on an improper warrant, and the decision should immediately be reversed!
Are you saying it was taken out of context?
Could it have been? We don't know, you didn't see the entire conversation, did you?
You had the evidence available, but didn't check for context did you, that's at minimum, sloppy detective work, at most, you ignore protocol in order to kick me out of the group, not only without justification, but without proper warranting.
Either way, the evidence should be expunged at this point as unreliable. It's fruit of the poisonous tree at this point. If you're lacking the evidence then you don't have the right to kick me out, therefore I should be reinstated.
He took quite a long time after these motions. I'd like to think that that's the moment, in my mind at least, that he knew I had him, or at least where he first realize that he might've acted slightly rashly. I don't think he took it too much to heart, based on the next image he sent eventually sent however:
I suspect that the "Erik", sending the message is Erik Junker, based on further evidence that was submitted later; but we'll get to that.
I'm not exactly sure what that statement means, but do we have a ruling on my motions?
Me either Erik
Damn shame is what it is
Again, I don't know what exactly is surprising, but I have multiple motions out, and I'd like a ruling on them.
And don't think we're done, just because you say no, I'm not done.
It's surprising that a long standing member of our club would disparage us
Really? Why would that be surprising? Is there any club or group out there, you can think of where there's been members for a long time, who may someday, even while apart of it, "disparage" it at some point? There are lifelong Congressman who disparage Congress, pro athlete disparage their old teams or the whole sports or organizations running it sometimes, hell, the only way we here about secret societies or cults most of the time is former or current members speaking out their grievances. Does he not hear what he's saying?
That's easy
Well, it's shocking that a long-standing member would be unjustly kicked out of the group too. What's the rulings on my motions, regarding the evidence?
He sends two more images back-to-back
The support mounts
As of this moment, I can't confirm with 100% certainty who "Jones" is, although I have suspicions. Naynay, based on the evidence is Annette Jordan. Basically, what he's showing me is that all the other Admins, who may or may not be in on this whole exchange, probably not, on whether I should remain thrown out. That's how little he thinks of me. Which he also confirms when Erik notes that, I "Wouldn't have thought I had it in him," to which, Mr. Champion agreed. (Sigh, slight chuckle under breath) Oh dear. Well, I get the feeling that, Mr. Champion, doesn't play poker, 'cause, that would be the epitome, of having a "bad read" on a guy. Oh, he continues....
You're out Baruffi
Find another, smaller, club
Because that's what makes "Film Club" the size of it.
The case is not over, and you're still on the witness stand.
If you say so bro
I'd like to introduce into evidence, the entire conversational thread, in which, you claimed, that I have shamed you.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/440155972774460?view=permalink&id=1270296166427099
This is a conversation involving several members of Seek Better Cinema, another group that I, and apparently a lot of your spies, are in. Are you able to see the whole conversation in the link above?
Lol the one you edited? I'll get the thread from my personal sources and get back to you
Whatever the hell I have done or said to this guy in the past, that makes him presume that whatever I'm doing is untrustworthy, I legitimately have no idea. If anything, I'm going as far out of my way as I can to show that I am not, but this is another time he can't seem to fathom that I'm not doing all this, just to scheme him. Again, this is J.R. Ewing crap to me.
I haven't touched the thread since the day I made a post, but if you want, I can submit testimony from some of the other participants in the conversation.
Could you summarize what the conversation was about, to the best that you can, Mr. Champion.
Are they in Film Club?
That line flew over me, but now, I"m wondering if that was his concern over the fact that some members of his group might testify against him, and possibly "Shame" the group that way. Never mind, that I didn't discuss what they've actually be testifying about, other than to confirm information that's already there, so, I don't know what he's concerned about. Testimony doesn't necessarily equal negativeness last I checked.
Oh yeah
Of course
You said that the admins at Film Club seemed like pricks, however
I honestly don't know, some might be, some not, but that's pertinent to the issue at hand. And again, I'm asking the questions.
I don't recall saying I didn't.
This was my immediately following a comment made by Andrew Buck claiming that Film Club was created by a former member of CD, which is not only untrue but you know it's untrue
I honestly did not know it was untrue.
What I am challenging is whether or not that statement brings public shame or as you put it, represents "Sideways Talk" about the group.
In my opinion it does
And in This case , It's the only opinion that matters
I can Andrew Buck into this conversation to testify if need be, he's working at the moment, but he's on standby, and he will testify that he misspoke when he declared and that you had a conversation with him, in which he apologized to you for the error, isn't that right?
I forgot to type the word, "bring", but this had been going on for about six or seven hours at this point, and I'm sure as anybody who's read my blog for any relative period of time will have noticed, that I think faster than I type sometimes and miss a word or two occasionally, even with my best editing eye awake. And yes, Mr. Buck, along with other witnesses, mainly those involved in the above conversation, which by the way, since Mr. Champion didn't offer a summation, I will, was about another Facebook group's decision to suddenly change it's name, it changed free "Cinema Discussions" to "Seek Better Cinema" and I instigated a discussion and debate about the name change, with some of that groups admins, and we discussed it, and other groups, and we were discussing and comparing the benefits and negatives of the name change and how to consider this particular group's "reputation" compared to other groups. I was on the side that they shouldn't have cared and the name change was overall, not a great idea, and there was disagreement. I casually brought up Film Club, in comparison to this club, and other clubs were analyzed and discussed. I don't think I brought any "shame" or said anything disparaging about the group, at all. Obviously, some disagree, but I certainly don't think I said or did anything that deserved or warranted expulsion nonetheless. And yes, it wasn't the only part of the conversation, that again, was not in Mr. Champion's "Film Club", that he was upset at, and yet he still didn't bother to look at the whole conversation.... (Sigh)
Oh yeah Andrew Buck is a great guy
But somebody can misspeak however, isn't that right?
Depend on the situation but of course
Somebody can say something that they may or may not mean literally, or they may say something that can be taken in the wrong way at times, when in fact that wasn't the intention, was it?
Wouldn't you say that's possible at times, Mr. Champion, that somebody can not only misspeak, but have their words, taken out of context?
Yeah that's the definition of out of context happens every day
Do you say things that are takent out of context by some people sometimes?
Prove you were taken out of context and I will START to consider alternatives
Btw your behind the 8 ball
I was amazed I'm on the pool table at all, so to me, that was progress. He then, sent this image.
I've had this much Jamison since this conversation began
I'm going to be pretty wasted sometime soon
That's good to know, Mr. Champion. Nice to know that you're so concerned about your group's reputation that you're willing to stand trial for that group, but only when intoxicated.
The word, "Pricks", is that a negative word to you?
Move to strike the intoxication comment. That was out of line, I apologize.
It was. Although, it wasn't untrue. He runs a group of 30,000 and I'm challenging, essentially, his authority, and he doesn't give me the respect of at least, not bragging about not being sober.
Oh I'll do this anytime
I think the headline is that I'll spend hours on this while on vacation
Because I care about my club
Pricks is a negative word to you yes or no?
It's negative enough word for you, to interpret that word as being shameful, is that right?
No doubt
What makes the group and admins ashamed of being called "pricks"? Is it just that it's a negative word?
They aren't ashamed
He posts another image a similar image to one he posted before.
I don't like it
Who's not ashamed? The rest of the Admins?
Why would they
We've been called worse
But, you still kicked me out, even though, they're not ashamed of being called pricks?
No
Because I don't like it
Should everybody have to kowtow to your emotional will, every time somebody calls you name?
Who are you Marty McFly?
What would you think of somebody who was in charge of a group that was so easily discourage? Would you have respect for that person?
He sends me a football emoji. I don't know what that means, I don't frankly like or use emojis, so.... (Shrugs)
I honestly don't know what to do with a football emoji, but you claim firstly that you're ashamed, and that everybody else in your clique, is not ashamed. Have they now read the entire conversation?
Do they feel ashamed to be a part of your group now that I've used that word?
Oh no they love this group
He then sends me another football emoji. I again, have no idea what that means or why.
So, it's so insignificance what I say in another group that it doesn't matter?
Speak better English
I'll rephrase....
No idea what you're asking
I'm asking if word "pricks" is shameful to the group, including you, and your admins.
if the word...
Would the witness, like a recess until tomorrow, where this trial will be continued?
If not, we can continue now, but it seems like you're tired at the moment and I don't want your responses to be compromised. Shall we continue this tomorrow morning, Mr. Champion?
Whatever you need bro
I'm hammered
Then, let's say we continue this tomorrow, give you some time to sober up.
45 minutes after my last statement, and about seven hours after this whole exchange began, he sends me a "Thumbs Up" sticker. I think I could've continued, but it seemed pointless after
I decided to not respond the next day to continue his testimony. I was preparing for it all night before too. In fact based on my calculations, at the rate that this was going and continuing, this trial would've lasted, somewhere between 3-5 days, had it continued, maybe longer. Oh, don't think I didn't have the material, my biggest issue was how to order to my defense. Do I start by talking about, the rest of the conversation and how it had nothing or little to do with Film Club, how my claim that they had ill-will towards another Facebook film group was true, and how if one part of the statement was truthful, why would the other part not be truthful, therefore why would it be shaming them. From there I could've gone into slander law and libel, and I could've argued intent and atrociousness of the law, or rule, or I could've talked about the context of the conversation, how it was only a comparison being made, compared to other groups, and not a blanket statement...-. Believe me, I had the material, I had a cross-examination that would've and could've gone on for days, and yes, cross-examination. I hadn't even put up my defense, which, basically would've been that the statement wasn't untruthful, wasn't calling them or any other member of the group a name, a name that itself isn't as inaccurate or shameful a statement as he wants to claim it is, plus, I had other witnesses I was prepared to have others testify who would've confirmed that there was indeed, no attempt to defame, insult or shame the group from me in any way, which there truly wasn't; my statement had no intention of ill will, and certainly. He even provided me with the word of one of his fellow Admins claiming that he "wasn't insulted" or "shamed" by the statement. My personal defense would've taken about two days
I imagine, and even despite this being a kangaroo court, had it continued and been appropriately completed, I imagine, it would've been 50/50 whether or not they allowed me back in, assuming of course, Mr. Champion actually took this as seriously as he should've. Of course, if I was had somehow managed to "Win", I wouldn't have accepted, cause, fuck them. I'm not staying with a group that would make me go through this. That would force me to go through a trial in order to put up a defense, a trial that I had to demand to even get, and even then, it was censored through their egomaniacal "leader" who's apparently so thin-skinned and so paranoid that he makes sure if anybody dares to criticize him, or the group, even outside the group that he will kick them out for the most benign statements that frankly if they were made towards me, (And have on several occasions) I wouldn't have even noticed and if I did, I would've barely reacted at all, and believe me, my fuse isn't exactly long either. Oh, and you heard him, he keeps- no, he brags that some of his "Admins", who are more like his Cult Members if you ask me, they go undercover and infiltrate other major film groups, just to find and seek out those who would dare say anything against him and the group, like Film Club is the goddamn CIA or something and needs it's image to be protected. I'm not gonna let his paranoia, his bullying, or his just generally self-delusion get away with it. If he treats me this way for nothing, then lord knows what he's doing or has done or will do to others.
And more than any of that even, the fact that he decided to act first, and not ask questions, not ask me, not inquire or even confront me, hell-, I'm amazed that, he would suddenly IM me, say that I'm out, and that I would presume to know what the hell he was even talking about, or that I would suddenly try to apologize, or not "own my statement", (Shrugs) or that I would be "playing with him", when he just accuses me, or for that matter, the fact that I had to pull teeth just to just to find out what I had did, as though, he knows exactly how minuscule and ridiculous his ruling and/or rule was, that he was afraid to even just say it. And he was just presumed that I'm constantly worried or thinking about Film Club enough during the day,-, (Sigh) This is the behavior of a self-obsessed tyrant, the kind that likes to imagine he has more power than he has, and more than that, he simply wants to throw it around, and use it to control others, and I stand up to people who insist that they're position of big fish in a small pond, and yeah, there's not much smaller ponds that a film group on Facebook, no matter how many people there are in it, somehow makes them more worthy or better.
I would form my own Facebook group for people who've been ostracized by Film Club, some have even btw, but he'd probably just ask his minions to join that group too. Besides, I don't want to run a FB group on top of everything else I do anyway, but what I will do, is whatever I can to fight Mr. Champion, Film Club, and anybody else. So, if you or somebody you know has a story about them, please feel free to contact me personally. You can IM me on Facebook either through my personal account or this blog's page or contact me through Twitter, and if you somehow feel that's not safe enough, send me a message and I'll provide you with a personal e-mail address that I've set up or you can message me on Facebook, and tell me your story, and I will publish it here, on this blog, for you. I can leave your names out of it, if you feel the need to remain anonymous, or not. Either way, here at least, is completely outside of Mr. Champion's control. And I encourage all other groups and Facebook members to either boycott or otherwise resign from the group. There's dozens of other film groups out there, there's literally no reason to put up with one that has a group leader like this.
Mr. Carl Champion, Jr., whatever I said, and however you took it, however, poor, unfortunate "shame", you or your group "feel" every time somebody says the most negative-like thing towards you or about you, and that you're so lacking in self-confidence in yourself, your work, that you have to keep up this perceived invincibility, exactly what could I ever possibly say that would bring more "shame" to anything remotely associated with you or your group, then you bring everyday, the way you run your group and treat others and try to control everybody, even outside your own group,.... You're the worst of the worst, the weakest, sorriest, delusional, most shameful piece of shit of a person I've ever come across.
And you couldn't believe, I had it in me, to go up against, poor little you? (Slight chuckle)
Oh, fuck you for that, most of all. Underestimating me, thinking that I was so small or insignificant, that I wasn't a threat and I wouldn't stand up to you; yeah, I-, I don't normally like to quote "Pretty Woman", but, to put it mildly, "Big mistake, big. Huge!"
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